"The patriarchy strikes back": Karoline Herfurth about her new film "Beautiful"

This article by the author Linda Rachel Sabiers originally appeared atEdition F.

With her film "Beautiful" Karoline Herfurth 2022 hit the nerve of the times: the episode film, which dealt sensitively and at the same time humorously with ideals of beauty and social expectations, was one of the most successful German films of the year. Now Herfurth ties in with "beautiful" on this success and sets the stories about self -acceptance, gender roles and social norms.

In the interview, we talked to the actress and director about the importance of feminism, the challenges of modern gender images and the worrying tendency that conservative, patriarchal structures would like to get influence again.

One of the last sentences in the film is: An attack against one is an attack against all of us. Feelings arise like anger, grief and determination. What feeling does you have with regard to the current world events?

Karoline Herfurth:"I think we are in a backlash. Or, to say it more directly: the patriarchy strikes back. This is clearly noticeable for me. We found ourselves before a breath, in which a stricter awareness of inequalities has developed. I found this state pleasant and liberating.

The mood is currently tipping back in an opposite direction. For me, developments come in wave movements and we seem to be in the backward movement of a wave. But the next one is already coming up. It is not easy for many people to stay confident. All the more I have the feeling that this film comes at the right time and could not be more up -to -date.

In my eyes, 'more beautiful' offers space to feel and heard. And at a time when it is difficult to keep hope. Above all, however, he conveys the feeling that we are not alone with our feelings.

When the Me-Too movement came up, it was very good to see that many women reported on their experiences. And suddenly there were more and more stories on the screen that I felt addressed. That was a completely new feeling, there was no ten years earlier. "

Was it mainly talked about us instead of us?

Karoline Herfurth:"Yes, stereotypes were rather shaped by the supposed frausin. And tragically, I find it funny that this is repeated today. Pictures of women are still created who do not match what I perceive as a reality of life as a woman.

When we developed the film 'SMS for you' at the time, we received feedback that the female roles would talk to each other. I am surrounded by my entire life of close, long -standing friendships of women who are exactly the same: clear, clear and honest. For me and my friends, it is part of a friendship to take each other.

As for the initial question, I am of course concerned about the current development and strengthening of unhealthy terms of masculinity. I still believe that the awareness that we have created in recent years cannot be stopped. I think seeds were sown that will bloom. "

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A remembering quote from the film comes from Hannah Arendt: "Someone who knows that he can contradict it also knows that he is agreed if he does not contradict." Is "more beautiful" the loudest public contradiction you have ever done?

Karoline Herfurth:"Yes. This can also be clearly felt. In the reactions to the film, I notice that there is a surprise moment. 'Beautiful', the first part, was much more gentle and more lovely. This film is less a "Feelgood Movie". We asked ourselves when developing what became out of the characters and content three years later.

When we examined the topics of body pressure and ideals of beauty a little further, we quickly arrived at terms such as sexyness and fuckability and thereby on the subject of sexuality.

We started to deal with how we are actually socialized around the topic. There is a female sexuality And what does it look like in everyday life? How is relationship in this context and what does it have to do with freedom? To what extent is the value of a woman for society measured on her so -called and externally defined fuckability? For me, the process was not only exciting, but the logical consequence of the story of the first part.

The nice thing about the episodic story is that you can tell a big topic from different levels and angles. In order to do justice to the overarching question of what female sexuality looks like, we did not want to hide the painful and violent aspects. That is why 'more beautiful' is certainly a surprise for many, but for me the right further development to remain loyal to the topic. ”

You work in an industry that is also known for abuse of power, misogyny and age discrimination. What positive progress has been in your view in recent years?

Karoline Herfurth:“My industry is one in which public pictures are designed. And there is a lot about role models. So I don't even know whether the film industry has misogynistic features or whether it is an expression of a misogynistic society. I think that there are patriarchal structures and abuse of power in all professional fields - in the film it is of course faster and visible because it is the industry of visibility.

A lot has happened in terms of positive progress. Especially when it comes to awareness of women's challenges. I have the feeling that there was a great will to keep reality in mind and have been reproduced more and more rarely. It was listed more and attention was given instead of dismissing or trivializing problems. "

What do you mean by fairy tale description?

Karoline Herfurth:"Let's take an aspect like 'the invisibility of women in history'. I did not grow with this consciousness because - like many others - I was taught in a patriarchal school system. I was not aware that this system was patriarchal.

Today we learn that historians have shown women incorrectly for a long time or simply hidden - only recently I read that Celtic women were much more powerful than previously assumed. History is currently being rewritten in terms of gender roles.

Looking into the world with this awareness is an insane gain in knowledge that encourages me in the fact that there was a positive development. Unfortunately, she is currently stagnating. In the film, the role of the Regine (Anja Kling) says that a well -known moderator plays: 'Me Too, Me Too. At some point it is good again, I can't hear it anymore! ' - This expresses an attitude that I am currently feeling increasingly in our society.

However, I believe that this headwind that the women's movement experiences is a sign of development. The more and the more images are questioned, the stronger the resistance becomes. "

There are women who think they benefit from patriarchal structures. You show this clearly in the film, in which you also represent female roles of misogynia. "I don't want to be a man, nowadays," says Regine, when she wants to protect an employee, was accused of sexual abuse. Where for you (female) fallability ends and where does structural discrimination begin?

Karoline Herfurth:“We grew up in the patriarchy and carry it in us. It is therefore very easy to split women. If we are constantly discussing and judging how a woman behaves, which educational style she decides, what she wears or whether she is operated on, etc., then we only create a split.

It is important to me that women together and do not condemn or judge themselves, I don't want to get into this fairway. I prefer it if we build bridges together for the freedom of all, regardless of our individual opinions and life decisions.

"It is good that there are prostitutes, otherwise there would be many more rapes. - This statement could have come from me ten years ago. "

Karoline Herfurth

For me, dealing with this story was a journey of knowledge. The sentence falls in the film: 'It is good that there are prostitutes, otherwise there would be a lot more rapes'. That could have come from me ten years ago.

Three years ago, I didn't know what the whole organ of the clitoris really looks like, I only learned that from researching the film. And that simply shows how much we are shaped by the surroundings in which we grew up and to question them or to recognize unequal and unjust structures, costs strength and time.

The structures in which we live are reproduced by various people for different reasons. In the film, Kia, the colleague of Emilia Schüle's figure Julie, says very clearly why she does not want to proceed against abuse of power at the workplace. I find this point absolutely understandable and understandable, since you also have to have the possibilities of being able to resist. We absolutely wanted to tell this perspective because it is not easy to name and counter injustice. ”

In reality, we especially lose many young men to toxic-male role models. Elon Musk and Andrew Tate are reactionary, racist, hostile and above all: very successful on social media. How can we counteract this with art and culture?

Karoline Herfurth:"To be honest, I don't know. And I don't know how big this trend is. But I have the feeling that there are many young men who are already very different than the generation before.

For the patriarchal privileges, no longer a matter of course that have a much greater awareness of the gap and no desire for toxic masculinity. I also perceive this reality and I really want to emphasize it. And yet there are very conservative environments that people feel attracted to because they seem easier.

But I believe that people are longing for an environment in which they can exhale. Toxic masculinity promises something to their followers that they will not redeem. If, in contrast, more human -friendly environments arise in which exhalation is possible, they will have a magnetic effect. Because they are beautiful and powerful because they enable love and consensus at eye level.

I believe that love only blossoms at eye level and sexuality with consensus is something very attractive when you have experienced it. As soon as people who think they benefit from the patriarchy experience this kind of being together, it will look like a drug. ”

This thought stirs to tears ...

Karoline Herfurth:"I mean honestly. Nora (Noted.Red. Nora Tschirner) says it so nicely: overtaking without catching up. I like that. In the film we translated this with the sentence: I prefer to go where I can be a cat. Sometimes it is not worth fighting like a tiger environments because it can be a waste of strength. Sometimes we should just create rooms elsewhere and wait for people who are joining because there are such beautiful flowers around. "

There is this key moment: You, in the role of Sonja, stand in front of your husband and say: “I don't want to fight anymore just so that you understand me. At some point I want to have time for others again! ”. Are we all doing something in the traditional small family?

Karoline Herfurth:“This is a very individual decision and for me freedom always expresses itself in freedom of choice. People should be able to make the life plans that they want. Nowadays we live in structures in which we also play Russian roulette. Because the question of which man you get to has existential effects. If you are lucky enough to get to a so -called 'good' man, you can live on an equal footing and beautifully.

If you are unlucky and get to a mentally or physically violent man, which cannot be recognized so quickly, then it is not easy to break away from it. As soon as children are added, the structures are particularly women's hostile, since violence can also express themselves through financial dependence. So I can understand very well that because of the many violent offenses against children and women, many women no longer feel like a traditional relationship model.

“Many people fight together and think that this is a personal argument. In reality, they negotiate structures that they have not built themselves. "

Karoline Herfurth

Basically, I firmly believe in the good in humans and feel that we have a great longing for together. I am in a heterosexual marriage myself and have a very wonderful man with whom I can grow together. Of course, we too are shaped by a system that makes it difficult for women to develop. However, the question is, especially in a relationship how ready and how capable we are to grow. This is not an easy task.

Many people fight together and think that this is a personal argument. In reality, they negotiate structures that they have not built themselves. These structures become a reality that you cannot change. At least not in your own four walls. "

Where does love in this system still have space?

Karoline Herfurth:“I think it is particularly important that we separate the system and love. Because love for each other and the longing after each other often have nothing to do with it. We tell this in the film so beautiful with Sonja and Milan (Friedrich Mücke) - they love each other very much. It is the structures where they work out as parents and that lead to falling into old roles as a couple.

Care work is taken over by women worldwide by women, these are all patterns that come on the table in the film and prevent them from being able to see themselves with loving eyes. Only the separation led to both of them that they could feel themselves again as a couple. Of course, all of this is only possible in a relationship at eye level. In relationships in which violence prevails, it is about political structures that let women down. In my opinion, that is far too little attention to.

But I continue to believe in romantic love, I am a total romantic. I believe that this can also exist in a traditional small family at eye level. Every woman can actually ask that: How independent am I? Can I separate myself at any time? Can I say no without having existential consequences? Also sexual? Do I have time for other beautiful things, or am I only busy negotiating these structures? "

After about two hours everything collapses in "beautiful": marriages, careers, ideals. Do systems may have to break first so that they can change?

Karoline Herfurth:“In human history, progress always had great disasters, and new things were often built on rubble. Of course I worry. When we look around the world, we see fire flocks and wars everywhere that have exactly this pattern. It is about patriarchal negotiations everywhere, as in the choice of a convicted sex offender the most powerful man in the world. When dictatorships rebel against the rule of law, this always has to do with their fear of equality.

Ideally, democracy is always an anti -patriarchal and the decline in democratic values ​​clearly shows that the patriarchy is leaving. This is visible in Iran, in Afghanistan and currently in the United States. However, it also shows when we want right -wing conservative politicians to deny women the right to vote or want to screw on reproductive laws. Of course I very much hope that we will take the next step without the big or even bigger bang. Of course, I don't know if that will be. "

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Do we need a happy ending in fiction to believe in a happy ending in reality?

Karoline Herfurth:“The end of our film was planned harder when we finally implemented it. We decided to end with a utopia. Because to this day, no stadium rises when it traces a sexual assault live on the field. In public discussion, resistance as a means of sexual violence and abuse of power is still not a matter of course.

Women always experience how strong and brave we have to be to display attacks. And often these run in the sand because the rule of law does not act or still decides on false assumptions in violent situations as if a "no" would only make a rape.

But I am an optimist and believe that sometimes people don't know how to find each other. I believe that we are stronger when we go from a story with hope. For me, of course, it makes sense to map reality and name things as they are. But that does not mean that I cannot make them something more beautiful.

It is important to build beautiful environments where you can connect. Especially in these times it is necessary to tell stories that don't leave us alone. Because we are not, we are many. "

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